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lucb1eHNSource author
Lessons learnedExperience excerpt · English

Thanks, but there's no way anybody here doesn't already know that

Thanks, but there's no way anybody here doesn't already know that. GrapheneOS' statements are inevitably reposted to every thread and subthread that touches on the topic. Yes, I knew it's in a sandbox at the time of writing my comment above; no, that doesn't make it a privacy paradise compared to microG. The sandbox still needs internet access for a lot of GMS' functions and lots of apps send information into it. For example, Signal will actively reach out for notification bundling, so Google gets to know who runs Signal, what IP address they're on, with who else they share that address as they go to school and work, build a social graph... So while the sandbox is definitely very useful and I'm glad it exists as open source software that other Android distributions can be inspired by, it doesn't definitively solve fundamental problems with running unwanted software on your device Do you know what privileged context means? As in, what access this grants concretely? I tried to look it up once, ended up in Android source code trees, and left more confused than I went in. …

Original discussionGrapheneOS has been ported to Android 17 and official releases are coming soon621 source comments · at import
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HY
HybridStatAnim8HN

MicroG requires privileged access. It also downloads and runs proprietary google code within this privileged context. MicroG additionally has very poor app compatibility and has had severe privacy issues in the past. Sandboxed google play does not grant google code any kind of privileged access. It is confined to the same app sandbox and permission model as all other apps and can be installed and uninstalled like any other app. Note that apps with google libraries grant google the same, unprivileged access google services gets on GrapheneOS. MicroG fails to meet the privacy, security, and usability requirements GrapheneOS has in place when it comes to google play compatibility. So, you can pick MicroG, which is bundled, privileged, poorly made, has poor compatibility, and trusts an additional party... Or, you can pick sandboxed google play, which is not bundled, optional, unprivileged, f…

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lucb1eHN

note where I wrote: > su'ing to the user ID of [another app] Look, I have root, so you can hack me! And my bootloader is wide open, too! In your words: > > Root access and an unlocked bootloader are insecure, even for low threat models. These devices are vulnerable and should not be used for any sensitive data. I'm serious that anyone should feel free to prove the point by sending me a responsible disclosure notice about having found a way in, but the threat clearly isn't serious enough for that to actually be concretely possible. Which is not to say that it's never relevant, but "such a device shouldn't be used" is not valid as a blanket statement

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HY
HybridStatAnim8HN

For context, GMSCompat is Google Mobile Services Compatibility. GrapheneOS installed the google play store and services as normal apps, and worked backwards to make it behave. There is no google specific sandbox, rather it uses the standard android user app sandbox. This means google is bound by the same rules, as special casing anything creates more maintenance burden and attack surface. GMSCompat is fully open source. > "Thanks, but there's no way..." Its reposted because the information is accurate, and misinformation regarding it is very prevalent. > "Yes, I knew it's in a sandbox..." Relative to MicroG, sandboxed google play is much more private, secure, and usable. I would not describe it as a privacy paradise, but MicroG does not improve upon this, and instead makes these aspects worse. > "The sandbox still needs internet access..." Most google libraries operate independently of g…

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