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Lessons learnedExperience excerpt · English

Certainly that is how I read it

Certainly that is how I read it. It divides effort, spreads it too thinly among too many disparate projects with essentially the same goals, and as a result, they all advance much more slowly. Examples: how many successors to C are there now? Hare, Odin, Joy, Zig, Nim, Crystal, Jai, Rust, D... And probably as many again that are lower-profile or one-person efforts. For a parallel example, consider desktop environments on FOSS xNix OSes. I have tried to count and I found about 20. A "desktop" here meaning that it provides a homogenous environment, including things like a file manager and tools to switching between apps, plus accessories such as text editors, media viewers, and maybe even an email client, calendar, and/or address book. I am trying to explicitly exclude simple window managers here. The vast majority are simply re-implementations of the Windows 9x desktop. Taskbar along 1 edge of the screen, with buttons for open apps, start menu, system tray, hierarchical file explorer, a Control Panel app with icons for individual pages, etc. …

Original discussionForth: The programming language that writes itself168 source comments · at import
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CA

> And we should aim for that, the babel tower of languages doesn't really help anyone. What exactly do you mean with this? That the amount of programming languages available isn't actually helpful, it's detrimental?

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JS

I feel the same, too many people doing similar stuff in slightly different syntax, too few people looking at how things are similar and could be unified. I think it's time to look beyond syntax in programming and untyped lambda calculus is the simplest choice (that is universal and can easily express new abstractions). Mathematics suffers to some extent from a similar problem, but recent formalization efforts are really tackling it.

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AM

> There are at least 3 rewrites of AmigaOS (AROS, MorphOS, AmigaOS 4.x) but despite so much passion nobody bothered to bring the desktop to Linux? The passion is there for the whole AmigaOS, of which the desktop metaphor, Workbench, is just a part. What fun is AmigaOS without Exec, Intuition and AmigaDOS? The passion is to see AmigaOS run, not to see Linux wearing its skin. GUIs for manipulating files a-la Workbench are readily available, nobody seems to have built an Amiga-skinned one when a Win95 one will do. DOpus is already a clone of Midnight Commander, and there are clones of that aplenty, the most DOPus-like one I've seen is Worker ( http://www.boomerangsworld.de/cms/worker/ ) The rest of the Workbench metaphor is available via AmiWM ( https://www.lysator.liu.se/~marcus/amiwm.html ), or requires apps to play along (e.g. Gadtools, MUI, Commodities, ARexx)

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VA

The thing is, the most fundamental obstacle to unification, is that unification is a very hard feature to obtain. Even in an LC formalization, do you expect that two "text editor" programs would be interchangeable? Would only a canonical text editor be allowed? Does the LC facilitate arbitrary extensions, that perhaps follow some rules at the interface/boundary? While I also lament what is, on the whole, wasted work and interest, I think the alternative is not some much simpler solution, but rather to offer something that is better. https://xkcd.com/927 is a warning, as true as it is annoying. We gravitate towards variety because it is simpler and natural to how we act; how will your proposal fundamentally improve on this? You call out misguided "defenders", and again I note the same problem, but you seem to be calling for One True Way with no significant realizable improvement.

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