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Lessons learnedExperience excerpt · English

To add: The really sad thing about IPv6 is that it's a relic of a bygone era

To add: The really sad thing about IPv6 is that it's a relic of a bygone era. The internet was envisioned as a thing where every device on every network could, in principle, initiate a connection to any other device on any other network. But then we started running out of addresses, ISP's wouldn't give you more than one for a household, so we started doing NAT, and that kind of sealed the internet's fate. Nowadays, we wouldn't want a world where everything was connectable, even if we had enough addresses. Everyone's network in essence has a firewall. If you run IPv4 and using NAT, you're going to be dropping unsolicited incoming packets no matter what (let alone that you wouldn't know where to route them even if you wanted to let them through) and with IPv6 you'd be insane to allow them. Devices have "grown up" in a world where we expect the router we're connecting to, to shield us from incoming unsolicited traffic. I certainly don't have the firewall enabled on my linux desktop. …

Original discussionIPv6 Is Hard438 source comments · at import
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NI

IPv6 isn't hard, and as the article alludes to, it is different, but it's not even that different. What is hard, is dual stack networking. Dual stack networking absolutely sucks, it's twice the stuff you have to deal with, and the edge cases are exponentially more complex because if your setup isn't identical in both stacks, you're going to hit weird issues (like the article suggests) with one stack behaving one way and the other behaving another way. None of this is the fault of IPv6, it's a natural consequence of the strategy of having two internets during the transition period. A transition period which has now been going on longer than the internet existed when it started. Maybe 100 years from now we'll finally be able to shut off the last IPv4 system and the "dream" of IPv6 will become a reality, but until then, life is strictly more difficult on every network administrator because …

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BO

In an IPv6 world, your home router still firewalls just like with IPv4 (the NAT is just an extra accidental firewall-ish thing), you can still skip the firewall on your laptop Having globally allocated address space doesn’t actually imply openness of connectability

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FE

Devices behind a firewall being routable with IPv6 doesn't mean you're allowed to connect to them by default. And if you want to, you have to explicitly allow that on the firewall. Just like you would open a port and redirect it with IPv4 before. Only with IPv6 you don't have NAT and a redirect. Some people need it and some don't. Again, just like with opening ports.

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ZR

There is a solution to this: RFC6887. You have a firewall at the edge of the network. It blocks incoming connections by default, but supports Port Control Protocol. The cacophony of unpatched legacy IoS devices stay firewalled because your ten year old network printer was never expected to have global connectivity and doesn't request it. End-to-end apps that actually want it do make the requests, and then the firewall opens the port for them without unsophisticated users having to manually configure anything. The protocol is an evolution of NAT-PMP (RFC6886) for creating IPv4 NAT mappings, but RFC6887 supports IPv6 and "mappings" that just open incoming ports without NAT.

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VE

> What are you going to do, train your users to log into their router and enable traffic? You do what has already been done for decades. You ship a client premises router that does deny by default inbound and allow all outbound and things behave pretty much the same as they do today with these exact same rules in IPv4. Network firewalls still exist in a publicly routable network. If I want my game console to allow incoming traffic for game matchmaking, I can then do that. Or have systems that auto configure that. But then I don't have to have multiple devices fighting for a limited port range, each device has more IPs and ports than they could know what to do with.

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AV

Every consumer router I’ve ever seen drops unsolicited IPv6 packets by default. But that doesn’t mean that P2P routing is suddenly impossible. IPv6 makes P2P routing substantially easier, even in a world of default firewalls that drop unsolicited packets. You can still apply standard NAT busting techniques like STUN with IPv6 devices behind firewalls, and you get much better results because IPv6 removes the need to track and predict the port mapping a standard NAT does. Two P2P systems can both send unsolicited packets to each others IPv6 addresses, with a specific port, and know that port number isn’t going to be remapped, so their outbound packets are guaranteed to have the right address and port data in them to get their respective firewalls to treat inbound traffic on those addresses and ports as solicited. This is particularly useful when dealing with CGNATs, where your residential …

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GL

Is the alternative reality One where all devices can connect to all other devices and come with built-in mitigations for the problems that firewalls are normally used for?

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GL

Oh god, no, no, no. It's so frustrating to hear this over and over again. NAT is not a firewall. A firewall is a firewall and any reasonably component network admin uses one (and likewise any reasonably competent ISP supplies equipment with one to users who don't know any better). A little knowledge is a dangerous thing...

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XO

This seems like it's conflating problems? "All devices are routeable" is a good idea, because it means when we want devices to be routeable there's a simple and obvious way that should be done. Where we've ended up with NAT though is worse though: we still need a lot of devices to routeable, and so we enable all sorts of workarounds and non-obvious ways to make it happen, giving both an unreasonable illusion of security and making network configuration sufficiently unintuitive we're increasing the risk of failures. Something like UPnP for example - shouldn't exist (and in fact I have it turned off these days because UDP hole-punching works just fine, but all of this is insane ).

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