The conversation

Lessons learnedExperience excerpt · English

Why is it different in something like aviation? My guess is because the failures are more visible, …

… Why is it different in something like aviation? My guess is because the failures are more visible, they're on the nightly news, people are there posting pictures on social media? For whatever reason, I don't think pilot organizations ever managed to remove themselves from scrutiny in the same way as physicians did. We see pilots as highly skilled professionals, but part of a system, with alternatives, and the subject of fair scrutiny from outsiders who are not pilots: engineers, safety experts, investigators and so forth. In my experience when these kinds of issues come up in healthcare though, everyone defers to physician groups themselves, as if no one else has expertise enough to scrutinize them. I imagine too at some level, part of the issue is that the pilots themselves are subject to their own mistakes: if a pilot crashes a plane, they take themselves out at the same time. If a surgeon makes a mistake and kills a patient, they still walk home and can rationalize whatever they want, all they want. I'm growing unsympathetic to these types of essays (the one linked). …

Original discussionThe darker side of being a doctor (2017)500 source comments · at import
3

What was this responding to?

Parent context · original excerpt

US

Most of the issues mentioned in the article and the included email are concerning, however they also oddly seem to be common in many places across the globe. The surgeon mentioned was in Australia, I have seen these issues first hand in the Netherlands and am aware of very similar of the first 2 out of 3 issues (caused by overwork/understaffing/over-fatigue etc) in Belgium, Germany, the UK, India and god knows how many other places. However, fields like aviation have strict workload limits. You cannot be on call/duty for too long because fatigue kills. Issues like alarm fatigue are studied by agencies, and folks at Boeing/Airbus then implement the findings. The question is, why is it okay for medical professionals to wear themselves down to the bone (sometimes literally, like in this article), while some other professions take care to avoid it? (Edit/PS: I added a fairly detailed self-re…

Full original

Community replies 0

No community replies yet. Add your perspective.

Replies from the source 3

Direct replies available in this import. Original-language excerpts.

ML

> Nowhere does he acknowledge the risks to his patients or whether the costs are worth it in the end, or if a different system might be better c.f. "...everything is rushed, and mistakes are bound to occur." "I am realising more and more that what brings me greatest distress is the relentless administrative pressure which take away the meaningful clinical engagement I have with my patients." "I was burned out and I couldn’t control my emotions at work and at home. I’m not inherently an offensive or rude person, I’m just a person pushed to the limits and set to fail because of the circumstances around my work." > In the end in his mindset whatever he's complaining about is better than the alternatives, which is ceding over some of the care responsibilities to others or opening up healthcare to a more competitive market so he's not the only provider who could provide those service This is …

Full original
KW

> At least in the US, there's a kind of masochistic pride in the physician community, But the question is why does the rest of society insist that pilots be properly rested but not doctors? I'm sure a lot of pilots would also work crazy amounts of overtime if allowed.

Full original
TH

I would also add the famous Bert Cooper line, "I never heard the word client in there." He mentions patients, but they are all wrapped up in a woe-is-me section I work so hard and yet I haven't been diagnosed with a mental illness. He sounds like the kind of person that brags about being mentally sound but is secretly addicted to benzos. Always advocate for yourself!

Full original
Continue on Hacker News

Respect different perspectives. Share concrete experiences.

Sign in to post, reply, repost, and quote.