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… This. I started programming in Machine Code, where the "editor" was a pad of graph paper. I've watched management- and business-focused people sneer at us geeks for my entire career, and watched them drool over the thought of finally getting rid of us. Hasn't happened yet. > I'd be surprised if the next step is "Hi, I'm an ideas guy, please give me an app that does Uber, for bicycles, but better." I get that, from "idea people," on a regular basis. They have nothing but contempt for us "Make It Happen" folks. They treat us, as if we grow on trees, and are suckers, to boot. Inevitably, the above, is followed by something that translates to "Of course, you will do all the work, but I'll get all the money, because the idea is what's really valuable." If I follow up on it at all, I'll be asked to sign an NDA, and meet in some clandestine place, so they can whisper to me about their AI-powered cheese straightener.

Original discussionJohn Carmack: From a DM, just in case anyone else needs to hear this806 source comments · at import
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CA

Looking back we had one CS professor who in 2007 predicted we'd all be jobless in ten years, i.e. 2017. His prediction was based on the trends he was seeing at the time. But it wasn't even AI. Instead he made this prediction because he saw the rise of no-code tools replacing software developers because managers could finally cut out the pesky "translators", i.e. software developers. I said it then and I will say it now. If your managers could specify what they need in a manner that no-code tools, or now AI, can generate the code they want, they will have to be extremely exact in their language. So exact in fact that they will need to specify a program in a click and drag interface, or in human language. Since they hire software developers to make the specification more rigid, and the managers don't seem to be getting better at this over time, why would you believe this skill set is going…

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CH

re: idea people True. And once their product hits the market, if it ever gets there, they don't thrive. Prior to launch they are sooooo in love with their idea that they are meticulous about features all the while thinking they're smarter than the market. They don't understand and appreciate the value of execution. Ideas are easy. Execution - because it involves people as well as adapting to change - is 10x harder. Yes, those people exist. Unfortunately, that bias will ultimately undermine them, but they'll never admit it.

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J7

This hits deep and resonates beyond tech. This “ideas” versus “make things happen” divide is also prevalent in science and art.

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CH

I agree with your characterization in general. If all someone has is an idea and no relevant experience to back it up, run. I can’t stand people like that. But there’s one type of ideas person I’m thrilled to work with. Someone with deep and successful experience in sales. The head of sales at my company is also relatively product oriented and boy, he just has a knack for what customers want. In general, I think many engineers can do some product management. We can figure out basic accounting and finance. But the idea of making a cold call to sell dental software, or chasing down school principals at an education conference is almost as foreign to most software engineers as CS is to most sales folks. Salesperson + engineer = superpowers

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SI

Wait until managers realize that their jobs are a lot easier to automate away with AI than the jobs of software developers.

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IR

> If your managers could specify what they need in a manner that no-code tools, or now AI, can generate the code they want, they will have to be extremely exact in their language. So exact in fact that they will need to specify a program in a click and drag interface, or in human language. This is also one of the main reasons why all programming jobs were not outsourced to India.

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OZ

To some level I agree - but at some point there is also much on the "business side" that cannot be easily dealt with. Like having connection or some kind of relation with people who will buy the stuff or would have people who would be interested in buying stuff you make. Yes there are these "idea people" who don't have any clue about business side and don't have any clue about technical side and in the end don't even have the right connections or business network. But they think they can make it because they have an idea(TM). These could basically play lottery and outcome would be the same they might make it but chances are 1:1000000 at best. Then there are these business people who have the right connections and have understanding of niche/business they are in .. that need technical help to execute their idea and these are worth their weight in gold.

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PG

> I get that, from "idea people," on a regular basis. They have nothing but contempt for us "Make It Happen" folks. They treat us as if we grow on trees, and are suckers, to boot. Ideas are like assholes ... everybody has one and they're usually full of shit.

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90

> I've watched management- and business-focused people sneer at us geeks for my entire career, and watched them drool over the thought of finally getting rid of us. [...] They have nothing but contempt for us "Make It Happen" folks. They treat us as if we grow on trees, and are suckers, to boot. I've met my fair share as well. Jobs copycats too! The trick is always to ask them how much they can raise, and do so assuming they raised successfully in the past and that they know VCs. Either the conversation gets really interesting, or they clam up real quick!

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